On talking and interacting with others

[Kenazandisaz]

Yes to attachment to nature. That does help when people are just too hard. Books work for us too. So many extraordinary minds to bump brains with in perfect safety.

I agree about the difference between solitude and isolation being choice and attitude. I wonder if there is also a worthwhile distinction to be made with alienation too. I think that's another vector that makes social contract hard.

I've been enjoying the discussion. Relatable and thought provoking. Thank you all.

K

[kakariko]

New to the forum, but just wanted to say I really identified with what dancingfish said on May 24th. I'm moving soon from a city to a more rural area and with it, I'm feeling a lot of nervousness and uncertainty. However, it really helps to remember that trees and nature have always been a place of safety for me and somewhere where I connect with a lot of calm energy. As a child, it was really a place I could feel safe and at peace and imagination.

It's nice to think of the move as an opportunity to reconnect with that! Thank you all for this discussion!

[EasyStreet]

Hi, dancingfish and all,

Been following along. Stephen Porges is a scientist who has developed "Polyvagus Theory" in the 1980s and is sort of the father of "fight or flight" concept. This is pretty complicated stuff. The vagus nerve's role in feeling safe is the key point that relates to the topic of talking and interacting with others. I'm just discovering this for the first time, you folks may know all about it.

But he talks about the relationship between facial expressions and the vagus nerve and internal visceral and heart/lung regulation and the communication of "safety" between primates. So the vagus is the mind body connection between organs and cognition. Lots of vagus evolution since the reptiles. But if the more recent neural pathways in the vagus are are not able to handle a situation, they are ignored in favor of the older reptilian responses, such as fight, flight, or most importantlly, shutting down to mimic death and maybe survive.

He talks about how monkeys monitor the facial expressions in the other monkeys for signs of danger or safety. Sounds like me!

I just self diagnosed as Avoidant Personality Disorder a few weeks ago, and have been getting mucho stress reduction from being alone. I'm kinda enjoying it revelling in being a loner, proud. But as I tiptoe around my wife, her constant scowling seems to be telling me that I'm not safe.

But Porges is telling me that since I'm a mammal I need that safe contact with others. Don't even have to be human, cross species is fine for the sense of safety.

Kinda wacky but just some ideas. All kinds of You tube videos on this but it's awfully complicated for me to grasp. If anyone can point me to some better discussions of this, I'd appreciate it.