Superstition anybody??

[Kokoschka]

Coconuts,
The thing is we're all visual creatures, our eyes take in the landscape, art, food, everything - and other humans too.
Would you have been born into a healthy and supportive environment your looks would have been just an asset to your self esteem and self respect.
But with a mother like you to guide her through life I'm positive your daughter will do just great. She'll know when to appreciate any compliments coming her way without letting them go to her head and when to be ware of who's giving them to her in the first place.

With me looks turned so important because I never knew I was being abused and that my abuse had made me awkward, weird, whatever. I thought my lack of looks was the cause of why I was treated like a pariah by everybody. I even told my poor father once that weren't he my father, he wouldn't look at me either.

I was always thin, slender, normal height and with a mass of dark curls kept cropped all the time. As I already wrote, I was told that curls can't be grown long. Only many years later did I realized I was being lied to (my mother admitted to being jealous of me) and started wearing them long.

Yeah, looks and brains in women - and males... a colleague I'd dated a couple of times told me that he was surprised to find out I was also intelligent and that being good looking he was sure I'd be a dumb chick. My husband says he can't listen to me complain about my looks anymore... I'm way past it now, really, I just can't stop mourning over what could have been Kokoschka

[Crow]

I'm going to jump into the looks thing now too.
My whole life I've also felt like I'm not a looker. Yeah, there's things guys are insecure about too. As a twin I was born premature. My brother and I were not the tallest and were skinny children. As we got older not a lot changed other than getting taller.
As a teenager I wanted girls to look at me like they did the popular boys at school. I was never 'cool'. Trouble is, growing up as I did I was socially awkward for a long time, not confident, and a target for bullying when a teenager.
I'm still skinny, never had a chest or big arms, always looked at guys I used to work with and admire their buff bodies - nice size upper arms and shoulders, nice chest etc. Only thing I could be proud of was my six pack... but who wants to show that off when they lack a chest and look like a skeleton... (and only had it because it was easy to work on to show when you're skinny) a man in a boy's body. I'm still only 9 and half stone, 5 foot 10 and have no meat on me. I've always had body issues. But as much as it doesn't matter, it does matter to me. I can eat and eat and don't put the weight on. I can't maintain motivation to try and work out. Can't afford to eat all the right foods. So I just accept that this is my body and this is me. I have body envy when I see a lot guys. But then, there's a lot of middle aged guys with excess weight and big bellies - not what I want.
I can't even grow a full beard - my cheeks are patchy and won't fill out even after four months. I look in the mirror these days and I see my brother looking back. I always thought I didn't look 'that' much like him (although we are identical and do look very similar), but I think it's the depressed face that I see now that reminds me of him.

Wow, that's dragged me down this morning!
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. We don't need others to determine our self worth.

Coconuts, as Kokoschka said, your daughter will be fine with your guidance. But I understand with a 12 year old daughter of my own how concerning it is... there are a lot of stupid, shallow men out there. Our society doesn't help young men (or girls) with the way we view others these days, but we can do our best to help our children to respect others.

Kokoschka, I hate that there are so many men who see looks and women to mean dumb... it's those guys who are the dumb ones.
Honestly, I feel sad to be associated with being male sometimes!!! I feel like I'm on a drive to prove I'm not like 'them'.

Crow

[coconuts]

Crow. I don't see you like " them" at all. And while many of my " clients" were male. Not all were. My biggest abuser was my mom. So i certainly find both genders equally capable of shallowness and cruelty. Monsters come in both genders.

Kokoschka,
Im sorry your mother was so jealous of you. In our home my mom was very jealous of me. She was always insulting me and shaming me. She told neighbors i was a liar. She told my dad constantly how stupid i was and that i was a thief and a liar. She dolled me up to go to the house but still would say that was the best she could do with what she had to work with. I spent a lot of time confused about it because she told me one thing end every one else told me something else and my dad wouldn't look at me either. Eventually i figured it out but then i realized it was a curse not a blessing.
Once my mom and dad divorced i tried to look as plain as possible. I didn't wear makep really barely ever. I usually wore baggy clothes. My dad was cheap af so he wouldn't have bought me nice clothes anyway. I tried to melt into the background. But being rather tall, slim, and large chested there are some things you just cant hide. I hated everything about me. I was ashamed of it.
Im sorry koko that your mom was so cruel. I wish she would have nurtured your beauty and intelligence and helped you grow up proud of who you are and strong and confident. What she robbed you of by her cruelty is not okay.


Crow,
Yeah i know im coming back to you. But i really felt it important to say that first bit. My kids are rather slender. Some of my kids are freaking tall though. My twins are 6 foot 1 and only 14 and my oldest is 6 foot 2. My 17 year old is 5 foot 10. None of them have the type of body that would build good chest muscles. They do work on that 6 pack though lol. This year the 17 year old has hone a bit soft
What with sports being cancelled for the last year. He hasn't been athletic since fall of 2019 when he was on the school soccer team. I think there is a slim possibility that he will get to do track this spring. Maybe.

Anyways my husband is only 5 foot 6. Technically 2 inches shorter than me. He is slim, and doesnt build muscle either. He can grow a beard but not long. Once its past the initial stages it doesn't grow well. But really i think all of them are good looking kids. How boring would the world be if every man looked the same and every woman looked the same. Variety gives us pleasure as humans and from an evolutionary standpoint i think its been important as well.

I honestly find larger men intimidating. Hell i let my 5' 6 husband abuse me so im not real good at sticking up for myself.



Kokoschka and Crow thanks for the reassurance about my daughter. I dont think she notices how beautiful she is. I tell her but she doesn't feel it yet. But i hope to help her safely navigate this world being able to embrace her beauty and be safe. Its very scary approaching this phase of life and knowing how wrong everything can go. But thanks for your confidence in me as her mom to help her.

[Crow]

I think really I just feel very different from a lot of guys I've known, and especially a lot of guys I have witnessed being typical men. Man, my last post was very self conscious
A few years ago I was not so much of a self conscious person with such low self esteem. That seems to have come since the childhood stuff really hit me.

Never mind, onwards and upwards - that's the goal!